Engaging and converting clients who aren’t ready just yet with Jennifer Pilz

In this episode, we are joined by Jennifer Pilz, founder of Riverside Care Advisors and current president of the Aging Life Care Association, New England chapter. Jennifer shares her extensive experience in care management, providing insights on how to engage and convert potential clients who may not yet be ready for services. She highlights the importance of personalized consultations, the value of thorough follow-ups, and the impact of testimonials and social media in attracting clients. Jennifer also emphasizes the necessity of focusing on clients who see the true value of care management services to ensure quality and effective care.

Key Highlights

02:32 Identifying Potential Clients

03:47 Engaging and Following Up with Clients

07:23 Personalized Client Education

10:45 Challenges and Strategies in Client Conversion

17:22 Tracking and Analyzing Referrals

22:26 Advice for Care Managers to Focus on Quality over Quantity

Listen to the full episode here.

Transcript

[00:00:04] Ariadne: Thank you very much for joining us on the CareCraft podcast today. I'm joined with Jennifer Pilz, who has spent over 25 years serving families and their aging loved ones. Seven years ago, she founded Riverside Care Advisors and has grown the team significantly. She has a master's degree in physical therapy and a graduate certificate in geriatric care management from the University of Florida.

And she's also the current president of the Aging Life Care Association, New England chapter. So thank you so much for joining us today, Jennifer. How are you?

[00:00:37] Jennifer: I am very well. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[00:00:42] Ariadne: I am really looking forward to our conversation, which is really around how do you engage and convert potential clients that might not yet be ready for your services.

So maybe before we jump into that, could you tell us a little bit about your journey in geriatric care and the founding of Riverside Care Advisors?

[00:00:59] Jennifer: Yes, absolutely. So my background is in physical therapy. I worked in all different fields working with the aging population.

My last job as a physical therapist was in home care. And while I was doing that home care, mostly Medicare covered services that had a very specific end date. I saw this greater need to do holistic advocacy for people in the community. There were so many unanswered questions that they had, and I really wanted to find a way to be able to help advocate for those people. So back at that time, it was called geriatric care management, now called aging life care management. And I found out this profession existed. So I went back, got my graduate certificate in it. I was lucky enough to do an internship with a care manager at the time. And then slowly built my business actually worked for a big care management company in Newton, Massachusetts for several years, and really learned, you know, the ins and outs of care management.

And then I launched this business seven years ago because I'm up on the North Shore. And things, you know, in my territory are a little bit different. We're not big city, the North shore has its own culture. And so I was able to build this business, really focusing in on like the culture up here and what the needs are of people and what they're willing to pay for.

And it's grown from started with just me. And now we have I have seven employees working for me. So it's, it's been a good journey.

[00:02:31] Ariadne: That's awesome. And from all of those experiences, like what are some of the key signs that you see that an individual or family might need care or might need your services in the future, but they're just not ready to commit right now?

[00:02:46] Jennifer: So I would say we see that a lot. I think that because I still do almost all the intake calls because that's, that's sort of my favorite thing. I love talking to people and hearing their stories. So, you know, the way that we do the process is when someone calls us, I say, tell me what's going on. Tell me the nutshell version of what led you to reach out.

I can usually tell right away if someone's ready or not. And so what I hear when they're not. is that they're sort of just looking into this. They're getting advice from all different people, friends, you know, maybe they know a nurse and they're getting pieces of advice from many different people who are free and they want to do it themselves first.

So they hear what I have to say. They understand that, you know, I may be an expert in this area, but what I hear the most when they're not quite ready is that they feel like, well, I'm getting all this advice from all these people, maybe I'll try that first before I actually start considering paying for services.

[00:03:46] Ariadne: That makes a lot of sense. And I guess in that conversation, how do you set it up to make it something that they want to reach back out and or know that they can reach back out to you at a certain point after they've gone through that process?

[00:04:00] Jennifer: Right. So after I hear their story, I always start to explain what we do.

And I explained to them that there's always going to be many different people giving you many pieces of advice. So there's, in my opinion, a lot of that advice is very siloed. So if you know someone in the hospital, it's all based on hospital information and what it looks like in the hospital. If someone works in a nursing home, they understand how things work in the nursing home.

If someone works in home care, they understand how things work in home care. But the value of care management and what I explained to them is, well, first of all, we don't take any, we don't have any financial incentive to make any recommendations to you. So if I say to you, I think assisted living might make sense, and this is the one that's a really good fit.

I'm doing that based on my experience and not because I'm going to get financial, a kickback from that assisted living. So I think explaining to them that as care managers, the way that we give advice to people is based on experience. So we are in the actual trenches. So what our vision is, is not to siloed.

We have hundreds of clients who have been through this recently. So we're really in the trenches. So all the advice that we give is based on experience. So that I think brings them back a lot of times if they start themselves and they get stuck, which happens all the time, they start and I say that to them, if you get stuck, call us back.

And I think that that is what you know triggers people they they remember those words and when they get stuck because they almost always do They call back.

[00:05:41] Ariadne: Do you have a process of keeping track of them as they come in, as you get those inquiries to think about, you know, maybe following up on your guys side as well?

[00:05:51] Jennifer: Yes, we do. So we've tried different CRMs you know, that other businesses have used, like there's many CRM tracking systems, but we created our own. So we just, you know, spreadsheet and we keep track of everybody who called, you know, the reason that they called, we have all of our documentation and then we do regularly follow up with them.

So, well, we don't like to hard sell anyone because I feel like this is a very tender and nuanced discussion, service and not everyone can afford it. So we don't, you know, continually bombard people with emails, but we do check in after a two week period, after a month period, and then after two months. And it's very gentle, just reminding them that we're still here.

And one thing that I do do very frequently with people who I can tell are not quite ready to sign on is send them information. So when I follow up with them after I've had the conversation with them, and I don't think they're quite ready, I will often send them little articles or little pieces of information that will, you know, give them something to go by, show them that we do have this expertise, and we do understand your story and where you're coming from.

You know, just giving them that little piece of information, I think, is very helpful when they do get stuck, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, that care manager made that, you know, made that recommendation to me, gave me this piece of advice, I'm going to call her back.

[00:07:23] Ariadne: So those are personalized articles that you have on a file or is that kind of content that you've created and produced on your website or?

[00:07:32] Jennifer: It's mostly content that it's personalized but I've found from other people. So we have little handouts, you know, like one example is a fiblet. So that's very common word used, you know, in this space of people who have memory impairment to use a fiblet. So, Often the people who are calling us have never heard that before.

So when that would be the case, you know, then I would send them an article about a fiblit and what it is and when it's appropriate to use it. So and we have all of those articles like teed up and ready to go for each client who calls if it's appropriate. I will attach it, you know, to my first email to them explaining what our services are and then I also give them some information based on their specific story, what's going on.

[00:08:19] Ariadne: Yeah, really a way to personalize the education piece of it as well to their situation. And when you're doing those check ins, you know that you mentioned like every two or four weeks, is that mostly all on email or phone calls?

[00:08:34] Jennifer: It's email. I am a person who does not like to be sold to and because of that, I just feel like it's, it's like a little less invasive to send an email so they can respond if they want, but they don't feel feel like they have to pick up the phone.

And also, you know, care managers get paid for their time. So I've already given them, you know, their 20 minutes and that's the first call that I do that that's free. And I always give a piece of advice. So I don't want to spend too much of my time either calling them answering more questions, you know, so it really the email is what works best.

[00:09:16] Ariadne: And is there a particular kind of content that you found most valuable in sharing with clients? I know you said on the education piece, but is it mostly, you know, on particular types of conditions that they might be dealing with or or just yeah, curious to know more about that.

[00:09:31] Jennifer: Yeah, it is. It's mostly helpful hints.

So there are a couple of resources, you know, over the years books that I've read and they'll have, you know, little handouts and they're very helpful, but mostly it's dealing with your aging parents. So how to know when to intervene, you know, when driving is an issue or, you know, as I said, the fiblets you know, it's really a lot.

When I send out those, those pieces of information, the educational pieces almost always has to do with dementia. Sometimes the mental health piece too, but almost always it's adult children who really need education around dementia and what that's going to look like and understanding that like once the parent is experiencing cognitive impairment, it's not going to go backwards, right?

It's only going to progress and so preparing yourself, which is another. piece of language that I use, and it's not, you know, it's all true, that dementia is progressive. So you're calling me now and you may not need me yet, but this is a progressive disease. And so you don't know when it's going to happen, but just so you know, as it progresses, when things get sticky, if you're not ready now, call back when they do.

[00:10:45] Ariadne: And is your approach different? I know you said that it's usually the, like, adult child that might be contacting you, but is your approach different if you do have someone that's contacting you about maybe their own, you know, condition or, or their partners or how does your approach differ there?

[00:11:02] Jennifer: It does differ. I mean, and the majority of the people who call are the adult children, you know, plain and simple. But when a person is calling about themselves, it is different because. you know, they're not calling because they have dementia. If someone calls themselves, it's usually, I don't have family close by, or I don't have family at all, and I feel like I want someone to be my advocate.

And so then, the educational piece is more around, here are the things you need to do, and the things you need to put in place before those things happen. So, the conversation is different, and the pieces of information, educational pieces I send out are different. When someone is calling about their spouse, You know, we don't have as much success of a turnover when someone calls about themselves or about them, their spouse.

And I think care management in general is kind of like that. The people who really see the value and want to pay are the adult children, but it's not always the case. Sometimes it's the person, I mean, do have solo agers and they understand, you know, the reason that they're calling and why they want these services.

But when it's the spouse. It is a little different but still it's that dementia education piece most often.

[00:12:16] Ariadne: Why do you think there's lower turnover when it's not the adult child?

[00:12:21] Jennifer: Because it's a generational issue. I think, you know, that's pretty well known in this industry. It's also where we are.

So our geography and the culture here might be different than like the big city because we're not New York City. We're not even Boston here. But the people, usually the older adults, usually, don't see the value in paying for services. They think I could just do this for free. My insurance should cover this.

I don't have the money to pay for this. This is excessive more often than not where the adult children come from it from a different perspective. They're still working. They have families, they have lives, and they're just like, Oh my gosh, please take this off of my plate. I know that I can't do this where I think spouses feel like they are obligated to do it. They don't feel that like, oh, please help me. I will pay for your services. They feel more like I need to do this myself.

[00:13:18] Ariadne: And how long does someone normally stay in this, you know, kind of considering but not yet ready phase? I guess, you know, like kind of what's the longest you've kept someone engaged before they actually became a client?

[00:13:30] Jennifer: Well, we've had people who have called two years ago. Who remember the conversation and they called and they were just kind of checking in. They weren't ready. But two years later, their parent goes to the hospital and they're like, Oh, I know who I'm going to call. So we've definitely, you know, many years, I would say probably two years will call back.

And, and sometimes even more. We also have clients who we've had on and we've solved a problem for so something very acute was going on and we've solved the problem. We've worked with them. They don't have the resources to pay for us ongoing. So they stopped using our services. But then a couple of years later, something happens again, usually a hospitalization and they will call back

[00:14:11] Ariadne: So like your process now when someone calls and you send them a little bit of information, you may follow up after a couple of weeks, like, I guess, does that continue like been on a monthly cadence for a while? Or you just, you know, follow up a couple of times and then if they need you, they get back in touch.

[00:14:26] Jennifer: Yeah, that's really what we do. That's really what we do. Just a couple of times. And then I feel like we've given them enough that and, and also with this population, I think, you know, people pass away. So we don't continue that. And we've, we're busy. We're, we're very busy. We have a full caseload. So we're not able to do that to follow up with people after the two months at this point.

[00:14:51] Ariadne: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I was more just curious, how do you feel about newsletters? I feel like everyone always talks about newsletters.

[00:14:58] Jennifer: Good question. So when I first started, I did a newsletter because I like writing. So I was like, Oh, this is my opportunity to be creative and write articles about the things I'm passionate about.

So I did newsletters for a couple of years, but really no one was opening them. I did not get much traction with the newsletters. And I had heard, you know, over time, like, Oh, but it kind of reminds them. They see your name, but I would see people unsubscribing. And I was like, Yeah, I don't think this is the way.

So I stopped doing the newsletters and people will bring that up to me. You know, kind of regularly about marketing. Well, what about newsletters? But I, for me, it's just not a good use of my time.

[00:15:45] Ariadne: Very fair. Have you found channels or other types of things that are a better use of your time as far as just, you know, getting your company's name out there and making people even aware?

[00:15:56] Jennifer: Yeah, well, I mean, definitely LinkedIn and we do, you know, we weren't doing a lot on Facebook, but we have started to, and really we've been focusing on putting more testimonials out there. So I think that that is very effective, putting out testimonials, because people can really see their own story when they read a testimonial from a client or, you know, past client.

So we have been kind of highlighting that highlighting different employees on Facebook and LinkedIn. And we have, you know, we were really focused on LinkedIn for a while, but then we realized that's B2B so when we're on LinkedIn. Yes, we are promoting ourselves, but often it's not to the person who's going to hire us, it's to other professionals.

So it's either other care managers or, you know, elder law attorneys, financial planners. But the Facebook is different because that really is more of the people who would be hiring us are seeing us on Facebook. And so we've made that discovery just really this year and have been more focused on putting appropriate material on Facebook.

And that has led to more referrals and people reaching out and saying they saw us on Facebook. And that's where we put a lot of client testimonials, highlighting different employees and their achievements. so much. And I think that that is, has been effective.

[00:17:20] Ariadne: That's super great to hear. You were talking a little bit about how you actually like track it and in like an Excel sheet or Google sheet, what are kind of the things that you keep track of in there?

Is it just, you know, the name and dates?

[00:17:33] Jennifer: The name dates, but more importantly, we keep KPIs on who sends the referrals. So we do our marketing and we want to know what our return on investment is, because we go to a lot of networking meetings, we meet with people one on one. So we track it that way. So, you know, it's, it's who called, who referred them.

That's one of the most important pieces of information to get is where did you get our name from? And we do keep track of it. And every order, we review how many came in from Google, how many came in from Facebook, how many came in from word of mouth, how many came in from elder law attorneys. So we keep track of all of that in our, in our tracker system.

It's our CRM system.

[00:18:16] Ariadne: And I assume you also keep track of kind of like how many end up converting. And is that some, I guess, do you also have metrics that you try to track about what led to that conversion

[00:18:28] Jennifer: It's fascinating when you look at these this data because you can meet someone and they are like, Oh, I get what you do.

And I find this more with physicians groups. So like, for example, we have a brand new physician group here in my town, and we are very local, by the way. So people really know us in the community. Because we all really, for the most part, live and work, right, in our community. So people know us. So we went out and did a launch and, and met with a local physicians group.

So they have referred a lot of people, but they don't really, like, they refer the volume, but they don't, most of them don't turn over. Most of them are not people who actually, you know, have the resources to pay for our services, and that is what the data when you track it of the return on investment from your networking or marketing efforts that is really informative to know where the referrals come from.

But more importantly. The turnover rate. So we find that, you know, and I think this is pretty true across the board with all care managers, but elder law attorneys, because they know the resource. They know the finances. They know the people who can afford our services. And those are the people they refer to us.

So I think it is very important to track because it's not about the volume. It's about the kind of client who really can afford and is willing to pay and sees the value in hiring us.

[00:19:53] Ariadne: That's a great point. Really. It's not just about like the volume. It's about that actual conversion, right?

You mentioned there were, of course, clients you have, that's like an acute issue and you deal with that. And then they maybe don't need your services until the next acute episode. Are there strategies you use to try to convert some of them, you know, to convince them that maybe the longer term services would reduce the risk of like another acute episode or what does that look like?

[00:20:23] Jennifer: Yes, definitely. So our processes, once we've gotten in an acute situation, so someone's in the hospital, they don't know where to go next. They want to bring them home. They want to take them to assisted living, whatever the case is. When, once we've gotten things under control, then we say to them, the most effective way to use our services is to keep us involved on a once a month basis.

So we're going to come out, we're going to see your loved one once a month to check in. Maybe it's just an hour, maybe it's 45 minutes, but that way we will have our finger on the pulse of what's going on. So if there is another hospitalization, we will be able to jump in and advocate for them because we're up to speed versus you use us for an acute situation.

We solve the problem. We don't care. talk to you for six months. All these things have changed and now they're in the hospital again. We're catching up. So I have a client right now that this is a very good example because I, I was involved. I kind of solved the problem. She moved to assisted living. Everything seemed to be going very well. And I said to the family, I think it's important that I stay involved and check in with her once a month. And I did that and then she was hospitalized again and the family had a lot of questions and I was able to jump in and have a conversation with the discharge planners, with the hospital, with the doctors to say, this is what I've seen.

This is how I've seen this progression. This is how she was doing. This is how she's doing now from a clinical. With clinical language versus the family member, so it was very effective. And so the family definitely sees that value and wants to keep me involved on a, on a monthly basis just to check in.

So that's how we do it. And if people really don't want to. You know, pay for our services once a month, then we will close the case and say that we need to start over again if there's another crisis situation and we can't guarantee we'll have the space to just jump right in. And the only way we can guarantee it is if we see you once a month.

[00:22:24] Ariadne: That's makes perfect sense. Do you have practical advice that you would give other care managers as they're looking to maybe improve their engagement with those individuals that are still considering their services?

[00:22:36] Jennifer: I have found over time, because I've been doing this a while now, and I've been doing the intakes, you know, as I said hundreds and hundreds a year of intakes.

And I just think the most important thing is to listen to them. So you listen to their story, but you, you, you figure out how to keep it short. So you always use the language, the nutshell version. And, and then you always give a little tidbit of advice. Always. Even on you acknowledge that you understand what they're going through.

And you give them a little piece of information. I think that when I get off the phone with people who have called in my goal and what I love the most about this work is when I'm done with them, they say, Oh my gosh, I feel so much better whether they hire me or not. They at least know there's someone here who understands what they're going through. So you acknowledge it, you understand it. You give a little piece of advice and that seems to be pretty good for the return on investment for conversions, let's say because people just want to be heard, but you do have to keep it short. So my advice would be to keep it short.

And something that one of my colleagues said to me the other day, because, you know, I know a lot of care managers struggle to keep it within the 20 minutes. And I think I've finally nailed that down. But she said, it sounds like you have a lot more questions. I would be happy to answer them and maybe the next best step would be a consultation.

So that's another, service that we have started that I didn't do a lot in the beginning. If someone really does have a lot of questions, but they're not quite ready to sign on, we offer a very low flat rate consultation. And many people, even if they never sign on for us, we'll start there. But a lot of times that one time consultation, after I've said, it sounds like you have a lot more questions will lead to them being a client.

Cause then they really trust you. Then they're really you know, seeing that, you know what you're talking about and that it is worth it, worth it to pay for the service.

[00:24:38] Ariadne: How do you practice getting better at those intake calls? You know, especially maybe you don't have that much volume you want to practice before it's like a, you know, real potential client.

[00:24:49] Jennifer: Hmm. That's a good question. I, I think you just have to I mean, for me, it just took a long time. It took a lot of calls to get used to it. So if I didn't have that volume, I would just kind of think through any of the situations that someone could call me about and how I would approach it. And when, you know, I think, okay, they're going on too much.

They're asking me too many questions using that. It sounds like you have a lot more questions. I'd be happy to answer those in a consultation.

[00:25:23] Ariadne: I've heard from some other care managers that are newer in their own practices, when you don't have a full caseload and, you know, it feels like there's like, much more at risk, right?

To not convert a particular individual. I guess, what's your advice in those situations?

[00:25:40] Jennifer: I think you don't want to convert clients that aren't a good fit. It's taken me years to figure that out. And I am in a different place than when we first started, you know, my director of care management, we've worked together for six of these seven years.

So we always, think back to when we first started and the kinds of clients we would take and the crazy stuff we would do and how far we would drive just to really get going. So I do remember that, but I think if you focus on the client who really will see the value of your services, who wants you for all of the things that we can do as care managers, that those are the clients you really want to focus on.

So not the volume. But like the type of client that you can really be effective with. I really think that that's important because otherwise, you know, you can get burnt out really quickly. But I know, and I remember, and I did it and, you know, maybe that's just part of the process. But it really is about, and I, you know, I've heard many care managers say this over the years too, getting the right client for you.

Someone that really wants your services and not someone you're just trying to convince the whole time, you know, because then they get the bill and they're like, well, what'd you even do? And nobody wants that.

[00:26:57] Ariadne: It's equally important to, you know, kind of filter out those potential clients, right? The ones that are a good fit, and if they're not a good fit, definitely don't try to keep them engaged in your process.

[00:27:09] Jennifer: Definitely don't. And listen, I remember clients when, like, I was trying to grow that would talk to me for an hour and I could clearly tell something was very, very off, but I just wanted the Oh, I need clients. We need to grow the business. And I regretted it. You know, some of those clients were really, really tough. And, and nobody wants when we send out the invoices at the end of the month for someone to come back and say, you didn't do anything. I don't think I should have to pay you for this. This is crazy.

And you know, that's, that's not good for your for you, for your feelings of, you know, effectiveness as a care manager, it's not good for the client. It's not good for, for anybody. So I think it is important when you're listening to really think, you know, is this something I can, I can take on. Yes, it's a good client is a good fit for me.

[00:28:01] Ariadne: I think that's great advice. So thank you so much for joining us Jennifer it was great having you on the podcast.

[00:28:07] Jennifer: It was great to be here