Building Collaborative Networks ft. Lisa Kaufman
Lisa Kaufman, a Certified Professional Aging Life Care™ Manager, shared how she helped bridge gaps between service providers in Atlanta by organizing a panel discussion during Aging Life Care Manager Month. With over 30 years of experience in the field and a deep understanding of the complex needs of older adults, Lisa created a space where various professionals could connect, learn, and collaborate for better client outcomes.
The Panel’s Purpose
The event aimed to educate service providers—many of whom were unfamiliar with aging life care management—about how care managers complement their work. The panel included a daily money manager, a hospice nurse, and a home care provider. Each participant shared firsthand experiences of collaborating with care managers, highlighting the benefits for clients and providers alike. With 80 attendees, the event succeeded in introducing a well-rounded perspective on aging life care management and sparking interest in future collaborations.
Key Takeaways
One of the most significant outcomes was increased awareness about what care managers do—and what they don’t do. Lisa noted that many providers initially misunderstood the role of care managers, often confusing them with home care or home health services. By clarifying these distinctions and showcasing how care managers fill gaps outside other providers' scopes, the panel created "aha" moments for attendees.
Providers also gained insights into the advantages of working with care managers, from reducing families’ stress to addressing needs beyond their service offerings. Positive stories shared by panelists underscored how collaboration leads to better outcomes.
How to Replicate This Success
To organize a similar event, Lisa suggests:
Assemble a diverse panel of trusted collaborators who can share real-world experiences.
Leverage local networks to identify and invite key service providers.
Choose a venue that is accessible and welcoming.
Focus on education by clearly explaining the value and unique role of care managers.
Events like these not only build awareness but also foster long-term partnerships, enabling care managers to better serve their communities. Lisa’s experience shows how collaboration can amplify impact and help more families navigate the complexities of aging care.
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Transcript
[00:00:02] Ariadne: Welcome to the CareCraft podcast presented by Panacea. I'm really excited for today's episode where we will be talking about bringing together different service providers to help each other understand how you provide care and coordinate referrals. And today I have Lisa Kaufman joining me.
She's a certified professional aging like care manager with over 30 years of experience specializing in the health needs of older adults. She has a certificate in gerontology from Keneshaw State University. She has owned and operated senior care options since 2001 and is a second generation professional aging life care manager.
And she served two terms on ALCA's board of directors, as well as being certified as an end of life doula. So Lisa, thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:00:50] Lisa: Thank you, Ariadne. I'm so glad to be here.
[00:00:53] Ariadne: Yeah. Before we jump into the topic, actually, I would love to just learn a little bit more about your own journey and what led you into being a professional aging life care manager.
[00:01:03] Lisa: Okay, this touches on the second generation piece. My master's degree is in therapeutic recreation. And I worked at Emory hospital for a while. I worked at the VA nursing home here in the Atlanta area for about eight and a half years. And during this time, my mother, who is a retired RN. Learned about geriatric care management, as it was known at the time.
And she started her own practice, and she was so excited about it. And it sounded like a really good fit for me. It was mostly the advocacy piece that really jumped out at me. You know, I was working for the VA, which is a very large bureaucratic system. And while they provide very good care, I'm not knocking that I did feel that there was some ageism and there were things that were not very aggressively looked at.
And I just felt like the, the patient got lost in a lot of things and it just didn't feel right to me. So when I learned about geriatric care management, I I left the VA and I stayed with my mom for a couple weeks and sort of shadowed her in seeing some of her patients and she gave me paperwork that she had her forms and things at that time and I came back to the Atlanta area and hit the ground running.
[00:02:22] Ariadne: That's incredible. So it's you were kind of opening your business. And learning is directly from your mom and everything that she had learned in setting up her own operations, right?
[00:02:31] Lisa: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:02:34] Ariadne: That's awesome. And so you've been running senior care options since 2001. And how do you feel that your experience in the field has evolved, but maybe even just the understanding of what care management is in the field as well?
[00:02:48] Lisa: It's definitely evolved in time. And I tell people, you know, the days where you would just visit with the pleasantly demented little lady because her son traveled a lot for work or whatever, that is so not what we're doing anymore. The acuity level of our clients has gone so much higher and family dynamics, personalities, just all sorts of things.
Post Affordable Health Care Act. The system has become more fragmented, even though that wasn't the intention at all. But that is the result. And now there are Medicare Advantage plans out there and the consumer doesn't understand how the system works and what is in their best interest versus the big corporations who are making money.
So, I still think that the advocacy piece speaks to me but it's just so much more complicated. There are a lot of different participants and providers of care, so coordinating what everybody is doing, the lack of communication is overwhelming, and post COVID, the dearth of providers is quite frightening.
So, things have changed.
[00:04:01] Ariadne: Yeah, it sounds like it. And I mean, maybe this is a great transition actually to our topic today, because you're talking about how fragmented the market is. And there are so many players and each of them, you know, have a different skillset that they bring, you know, kind of fit into someone's care journey in a different way.
So how do you think about. You know, just making all of those individuals aware that, you know, Lisa exists and Lisa is a great care manager and, you know, that you should fit in that patient journey.
[00:04:34] Lisa: You know, marketing is always a thing. We want to let other providers know that we're here. The Aging Life Care Association has done a fabulous job of getting the word out.
Marketing, PR we, there's a lot of interviews. Kate Granigan is the current president for the association. She's done some really fabulous interviews. That all cumulatively helps the community, but the public who will be our consumers and providers out there understand that we are here to serve. It's an extremely valuable service in, in my opinion.
And I think that families can benefit from having a care manager assist them in making decisions and understanding what the choices are and how to make an educated decision about moving forward with their loved one's care needs. Providers don't necessarily know that we're here. So letting them understand how to work with us and being good communicators so that everyone understands what each person's role is.
And sometimes that can be really challenging.
[00:05:46] Ariadne: Yeah, and I think one of the things that you had shared with me in one of your approaches kind of at a local level to make sure, you know, providers understood was putting together a panel, correct?
[00:05:56] Lisa: Yes, we did in the Atlanta area. So may is Aging Life Care Manager month, and we celebrate that every May.
So this year, our Atlanta unit wanted to pull together a panel discussion to let other providers no one know and better understand how to collaborate slash partner with an aging life care manager, not in a formal monetary sense, but just to work well together for the, the, on the behalf of our clients.
And, we had about 80 participants. The panel included a daily money manager, a hospice nurse and a home care company. So that they were several different types of providers that we work with on a regular basis. So that they could share their perspective on what it was like working with a care manager, what were the benefits and how did it benefit their clients or their practice?
And 80 people in the audience that were mostly service providers who didn't fully understand what the role was. A lot of people hear it and they think, I think they know what it is, but they don't really, or they haven't had the experience yet of working with a care manager to really get the scope of it.
So it was a great opportunity. And I've had people come up afterwards and they're like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea. And that was a great presentation. Would you do it again? And absolutely. I'd do it again.
[00:07:22] Ariadne: Yeah, that's awesome. So who did you end up, I know you talked a little bit about who was invited, but kind of what was the rationale behind the individuals that.
You put on the panel,
[00:07:32] Lisa: That these were trusted advisors that we work with on, on a regular basis and that hopefully their firsthand experience of collaborating with an aging life care manager would be helpful to other providers who haven't had that experience. Experience yet and don't really understand how is this helpful?
Or why would he I even want that for my client? Why would I make a referral? What can I expect if I'm working with someone? So all of those things are really helpful. And I think just having. That well rounded viewpoint from, you know, having a panel made it very informative to the audience. That was certainly the goal and, and we knew as we were planning to have a panel discussion that other providers haven't worked with an aging life care manager and they didn't know.
They didn't know exactly what we do or why they would refer or what are the benefits both for their practice and for the clients, the mutual clients that we serve. So I think that we accomplished our goal of educating and it seemed very well received. So I was very excited about that.
[00:08:51] Ariadne: 80 people in the audience is quite a big number.
How did you market it to them and, you know, get it in front of people so that they even knew that the event was happening?
[00:09:00] Lisa: Well, one of the, the Atlanta unit members is a very strong marketer for one of the hospice companies in the area, and she has a lot of great experience kind of pulling activities like this together, and she had all of us, anybody who was on the panel to give names of providers that we would like to be in the audience, and there was just a huge pool of marketing push to get people invited and encouraged to, to participate.
And it was, it went really well. So she did a great job.
[00:09:35] Ariadne: Yeah. And was this in person or all virtual?
[00:09:38] Lisa: It was in person.
[00:09:40] Ariadne: Oh, wow. So how did you find the space for all these people?
[00:09:44] Lisa: One of the other unit members knew of a great space. It was in her local church, but it was a very large room and stage and they had lighting and they, I think they did recordings, not, not video, but audio recordings of the entire thing.
And so they were, I think, pleased to. be able to use the space on a day that wasn't a Sunday. So it was available and open plenty of parking. And they were excited to have us there. And I think that it was certainly a good like cross pollination with the care manager who had that connection. So, you know, it was just a multi level marketing.
Thing everybody benefited from it.
[00:10:26] Ariadne: That's awesome. It seems like this was a real team effort then. Oh, absolutely.
[00:10:30] Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:10:34] Ariadne: And what were some of the insights that came out of that panel? Like, what, what were your takeaways as as someone that's looking for referrals?
[00:10:43] Lisa: Well, I think that it was very helpful that other providers who haven't ever referred before or haven't worked with a care manager got more insight into what were the benefits both for their clients and for their their practice or their agency.
And. It really it was nice to have the first hand experience from the daily money manager and the hospice nurse and the home care company, both in differentiating that we do not do those things. And also, why do you want to part with, partner with somebody who covers different bases than you do and how we can work well together.
I think some of the takeaways, it was, it's always lovely to hear about positive interactions. You know, we, we tend to focus on this didn't work well, or I wish I had known about you then, or, or all of that. But it was, it was lovely to hear. These first hand experiences that were very positive and influential to people, I think, and they told some great stories.
[00:11:44] Ariadne: Were there any, like, aha moments that you feel like the providers had as they were listening to all the interactions?
[00:11:52] Lisa: Good question. I think so. The feedback that I got from people after we had completed and then subsequent marketing events that I've been to just as a networking, you know, just a participant that people would come up and say, didn't you speak on some panel about care managers?
And yes, yes, I did. Oh, I was there. And that was great. And I had no idea. It's mostly that I had no idea. They just, you know, You know, people think they know what aging life care management is and they don't. And it's just, it's such a, an abstract concept really, in a lot of ways that people immediately, just for ease of thinking, start to see, how can I fit this in a box?
Oh, you must be home care. No, we're not home. Oh, you must be home health. No, we're not home health. Oh, you must be. Yeah. So I sometimes tell them what we don't do. So I can get down to what we do. But, you know, I, I try to tell people that whether it's the marketer in an assisted living, or if it's the, the nurse for a home care company, you know, they really, there's boundaries to what they can and cannot do.
And, you know, There are times that the families have more expectations or more needs than really fits within their scope of service. And when something falls outside of a scope, that is almost always a great place for a care manager to come in and either do that or provide the appropriate resources to meet that need.
So we'll drill down, and it's not just that we're big hearted people, blah, blah. You know, I have worked with a home care company. This is a long time ago. And somebody who was not a clinician, they bought a franchise, lovely, big hearted, still remain in touch with her. And when she was new in the business and had a lot of free time, she would go visit her clients for, you know, Without cost just because she liked spending time with them.
That's all lovely. And then she started taking them to doctor's appointments. Also very lovely. I appreciate where you're coming from. As her practice grew, she couldn't do that anymore because she didn't have the time, but suddenly her older clients, you know, the longer standing clients wanted to know why she didn't do these things anymore.
And she's like, well, honestly, that was never really part of what I did. Well, that creates confusion. So. Clarity is kindness and knowing how to clearly define what your role is. can help. I think that there are a lot of elder law attorneys and somebody who's watching this may get really ticked off with me, but there is a a marketing model across definitely the South, but probably across the nation for elder care coordinators, which are usually social workers and nurses that, that work for an elder law attorney.
Lovely. So they keep tabs on the clients and can let the attorney know if there's been some sort of change in status. It is not a moneymaker, and they aren't able to leave and go to appointments and do things that aging life care managers can do. It's a very superficial overview, and it really is to keep tabs on what the condition is of this client.
Well, then it becomes really hard to refer, because if you're providing this for free, why would I spend money for it? Except you're not providing it, but you are confusing the client. So I, I do have issue with that. I have issue with any provider that does a very superficial version of what care management really is because it makes it harder to sell and it makes it harder to pull away if you've been providing something you're not supposed to provide.
Hopefully that makes sense.
[00:15:42] Ariadne: Yeah, that does make sense. I mean, I think what you're getting at is not just from kind of the business. owner's perspective of like understanding, you know, your own services and what's in scope and what's not. But even as a consumer, right, like having that confusion, because You know, there are ways in which you might be assigned a care manager through your health plan through your provider.
Like, there's many different avenues, but I agree. I think the industry right now is quite ambiguous about what, what, what actually falls into each of those care management roles. Absolutely.
[00:16:16] Lisa: It's a good way to put it.
[00:16:17] Ariadne: Yeah. And. And yeah, it does create a lot of confusion as I'm sure like sales impact for you as well So I mean you were saying coming out of this meeting.
You definitely have had people Recognize you and, and, you know, like acknowledge that they understand a bit more about what you do. Has it turned into more referrals or, or, you know, a referral from someone?
[00:16:39] Lisa: Yeah, it has. It absolutely has. I mean, for me and I'm very comfortable with this, the sales cycle.
For what we do is a very long process and some of it is that people are not very familiar with what aging life care managers are. They are way more familiar than they used to be 20 years ago. They'd never heard of it. Now they kind of have heard of geriatric care managers. And what is this new name?
And how are you different than, you know, so and so and and Medicare is now paying for some kind of care management. But it is usually done through a doctor's office and it's usually telephonic. So again, the consumer doesn't understand what the profession of aging life care provides and what the benefits are.
That it's actually while it costs money could have a cost savings in the long run because you're making better decisions. So there's less hospitalizations or better utilization of funding to be used appropriately. I mean, there's a lot of different things. Plus you're not wasting time and energy and money going down the wrong avenue.
If this isn't the right thing, because you simply don't know what you don't know.
[00:17:53] Ariadne: That's really interesting. You know, I, I feel like I've heard a lot of people talk about that as a concept, right? Like, you know, the. the value it generates, of course, being bigger than the cost of it. Have you seen anyone like put numbers to that?
Or is that something in your own practice that you guys have tried to quantify for people?
[00:18:12] Lisa: Not in a formal way. However, the Aging Life Care Association is in the midst of a really big research project where they are looking at both the the objective benefits of using aging life care professionals how it can save them money, how it can increase their health, all of the different benefits that they may be looking at.
And also just about more about the marketing and how, how Aging Life Care Managers get the word out. So it's sort of a two part research project. But the part that I'm, I personally am more interested in is rather than the anecdotal, how this was helpful is what are the numbers? What is the reduced hospitalization?
What is the increased longevity? I have, again, anecdotal evidence from my practice and experience of how this has occurred, and things like how long I've had clients versus the actuary tables. So I can just compare against numbers that are out there and could say, you know, in general, We see clients for four or five, six years.
Whereas the actuarial tables might say that they would only live for two or three. So, okay, right then and there that says that we're extending their life. The goal is to improve their healthcare and their quality of life. And then that's a subjective thing to look at into is, is how do you quantify a qualified.
You know, or a quality of life issue. It's very hard to tell. So that's very subjective, but I certainly would like to think we are providing that for our clients.
[00:19:58] Ariadne: Yeah, I'm excited to see when these research studies come out.
[00:20:02] Lisa: Yes.
[00:20:02] Ariadne: Well, I, you know, just going back to the original topic, you know, for others that are listening that might want to Organized, you know, an in person event in their area.
What advice do you have for, you know, how they should go about it and the types of people that they should, you know, really target inviting?
[00:20:23] Lisa: A couple of different thoughts on that. One is, you know, for those who are part of the Aging Life Care Association, look into what your unit, your local unit or your chapter, if there's not a unit, then perhaps your regional chapter to see what kind of support the board or some of the other participants can provide so that you can collaborate together to have some sort of event.
Then be looking at. I think this is the part that's really, really important. Know your audience. What are you, who are you trying to reach? And what is your message? I think one of the things that gets a little bit awkward murky at times is that for aging life care managers, we have two clients.
There's the decision maker family client who may hire us. And then there's the primary client who is the senior. And then there's the referral sources. So who are you messaging? Do you want to talk to the decision makers? Do you want to talk to the seniors? Do you want to talk to referral providers or potential gatekeepers?
Who is it and what is your message? And then you fine tune. How to get in front of those people. So if it's other providers, perhaps there is a networking group for senior providers in your local area and you can reach out to them and gather that for your marketing to get those contacts and build relationships with people so that you are reaching who you want to reach for whatever it may be.
If it's something that's for adult children, what time of day? What day of the week? Are you providing dinner? Are you providing heavy hors d'oeuvres? Is it late enough that you just are going to have dinner? You know, decaf coffee and something, some kind of refreshment and wouldn't assisted living allow you to market.
Would they do a collaborative marketing effort? Is there an educational piece that you can bring? You just don't show up to talk to family members or seniors to sell them. We're smart. I mean, people in general are savvy. If they think they're being sold to, they're not going to go or they're not going to listen to it.
Time is valuable. What is in it for them? So if there's a message and it's the correct audience, then perhaps that would be, you know, you want to fine tune where you're going with that
[00:22:54] Ariadne: and what were the steps you took to make sure that the discussion itself that occurred was really productive.
[00:23:01] Lisa: We did actually so we had a couple of zoom calls with all of the panelists, so that everyone was on the same page and then we asked each of them to write a few questions and to be thoughtful about what their responses would be. So you know, for the people who were not the aging life care managers, have they had these experience?
They were handpicked, by the way, and we knew who they were. But, you know, tell us a little, a brief story about an outcome and maybe what would have been different had they not had an aging life care manager involved? What, what did they find to be helpful? Okay. But we, we did, we kind of came up with mock questions and outline, not unlike how you prepared for today.
It was very similar. And that each participant gave their questions. This is what I think would be helpful for this topic. So that people were engaged and involved and we had more than enough to talk about. So we did not cover everything. But that way there, we had a sense of, you know, everybody got a copy of the combined lists and we kind of practice talking about a few things.
We didn't do like a mock panel, but everything flowed very well. I think we were well prepared.
[00:24:19] Ariadne: That's awesome. And were audience members allowed to ask them questions?
[00:24:22] Lisa: Absolutely. And one of the things that we did is put note cards on each table with pens, excuse me, so that they could write their questions.
And we had a moderator because it was a panel. So the moderator went into the audience and picked up these note cards to ask questions aloud for everyone so that we could respond and continue to educate.
[00:24:44] Ariadne: And it sounds like you're planning to do the panel again. Is that in the near future?
[00:24:49] Lisa: No, we don't have anything on the books yet, but it was well received and I think everybody enjoyed doing it. I didn't hear from anybody who said they wouldn't do it again, but I don't think we have anything planned at this this time. I think we'd be open to doing it.
[00:25:06] Ariadne: Do you have other initiatives you're working on now?
It seems like you're quite busy in the unit.
[00:25:11] Lisa: I, I am at the unit level. No. For the, the national level, I'm speaking at this is on Thursday. I'm going to be speaking about aging life care managers. In a similar vein to the National Adult Day Service Association, so it's adult daycare providers, their their annual conferences in Atlanta this year, and I will be one of the breakouts.
So I'm very excited about that. And then on a much more Like a personal version, I am speaking to, we have the Philadelphia osteopathic medical school. I think that's what it's called and it's physician's assistants and I will be speaking to them on the 1st of October about things to be aware of when caring for the elderly.
So. Very cool.
[00:26:06] Ariadne: Yeah. Both of those sound very interesting. If any listeners did want to or are thinking about kind of organizing an event in their own area what would be the best way to reach out to you?
[00:26:18] Lisa: Oh, they can certainly reach me if they have questions. I am at 770 579 9177. And my email address is lisakaye at seniorcareopt.com
[00:26:33] Ariadne: awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a really interesting conversation and really appreciate your approach to educating the whole community.
[00:26:42] Lisa: Oh, thank you. It's important.
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